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A large majority of riders are telling BART they would give up 2 inches of seat width in exchange for wider aisles.
The wider aisles are designed to make it easier for customers on crowded trains to get to the train doors to exit. Wider aisles also will make the new cars more spacious and comfortable for standees during peak periods.
BART is hosting seat labs to gather public input on the project to replace its entire fleet of train cars, the oldest in the nation, with the Fleet of the Future. The interactive seat lab will be at the Dublin/Pleasanton BART Station from 3-6:30 p.m., Monday, June 13, to give Pleasanton residents a chance to try out new train car seating designs and give feedback.
“It’s totally OK to get a little bit closer if it means more space to accommodate people,” Carrie Harvilla, a BART rider who toured a seat lab Thursday in Union City, said as she filled out a survey.
BART’s current seats, at 22 inches, are among the widest of any transit system.
In a recent seat lab controlled for random sampling, about 90% of those surveyed said they found 20-inch-wide seats acceptable. Those customers picked wider aisles at the expense of slightly narrower seats, which would still be fairly wide relative to others in the industry.
“I prefer the width of the current seats, but I understand that there are tradeoffs to be made,” Christian Schultz, another visitor to the Union City seat lab, added.
A design with wider aisles could make it easier for people to get on and off trains efficiently, with the potential to get trains in and out of stations more quickly. Another benefit would be better accommodation for people with disabilities. Robin Guild, who toured the seat lab in Union City and who uses a wheelchair, said wider aisles would make things easier for him.
Other findings
Other findings of the controlled sample were that 63% preferred forward-facing to sideways seats; 97% found 27 inches of legroom acceptable (compared to 29 inches currently); and respondents rated cleanliness at 6.28 and comfort at 4.88 on a scale with 1 being “not at all important” and 7 being “very important.”
Armrests were a toss-up with 49% preferring no armrests and 36% wanting armrests, within the margin of error making it about equal.
The results of the randomized sample will be tracked against results coming in from a series of demonstrations for the general public, featuring a mini version of the seat lab. The mini version of the survey includes questions about seat width; armrests; accommodations for bikes, luggage and strollers; passenger information; seat materials; and other design ideas.
Accommodating different needs
At Thursday’s event in Union City, rider Michael Jordan said that accommodating people with disabilities should be a priority.
“There’s got to be access to available seating near the doors,” he said, suggesting more prominent signage of the notice that seats must be given up for people with disabilities. “The signs now are too small,” he said.
Anna Sanchez was thinking about needs of parents as she pushed her baby in a stroller down the seat lab aisles while her two older children, ages 10 and 8, helped fill out the survey.
“We ride BART every day, Monday through Friday,” she said. “I wanted them to come out and see this because they’ll be riding BART when these new trains get here.”
The seat labs are just one of the ways BART is gathering public input.
More seat labs scheduled
Six seat labs for the general public have now been completed — one each in San Francisco, Pittsburg, Richmond, Union City and two in Oakland. Five more are planned by the end of June to complete the calendar — at Dublin/Pleasanton, Pleasant Hill, South San Francisco and tentatively one for Antioch and another in San Francisco. Surveys from the general public labs will be analyzed and added to the mix.
In addition, BART is collecting email feedback, with more than 1,000 comments already received from the public. The general public seat labs already have collected around 1,000 surveys. Earlier versions of the seat lab sought comments from groups of riders with specific concerns, such as riders with disabilities, senior citizens and bicyclists. Another version was the controlled sample described above.
The feedback will be shared with industrial designers, who will use it to come up with three renderings that incorporate the most-requested features and try to balance tradeoffs for the best possible interior design. Then, later this summer, there will be another round of public input on those three models. Based on that public input, BART will give design guidance to the company that ultimately will build the train cars. Five builders have submitted proposals for the job.
Sign up to receive updates on the Fleet of the Future, or submit your feedback, at [http:www.bart.gov/cars www.bart.gov/cars].
Melissa Jordan is BART Senior Web Producer.
Melissa Jordan is BART Senior Web Producer.
Melissa Jordan is BART Senior Web Producer.
A. I looked all over the BART site, but couldn’t find a location to take their “online survey.” Has that option ended? (I do see a location to send you “comments” and ideas about the train cars.)
B. I’m wondering about the following types of questions and concerns:
1. Connected with the idea of having NARROWER seats, have there been questions on the surveys about having “MORE seats per row” as opposed to just having “more standing space in the aisles?” (not sure what my own position will be about 3 seats vs 2 seats)
2. Who is making the surveys, conducting the surveys and deciding the design of the mockup car? (Surveys can be so controlled and skewed by the makers of the surveys to get the answers that they want. Are the surveys designed by an independent company or by BART management? I’m glad to see the extensive general public period as that will tend to allow many sides and ideas to be presented.)
3. I think that personal space and public SECURITY is a highly important subject nowadays and I didn’t read anything in the article about it.
Will there be multiple cameras in each car? How will the camera views be regulated (viewed) and responded to? Live viewing? Recorded viewing? Both?
What about “terrorist” concerns? What innovations will be made in this area? How will “left” bags be discovered and addressed? Will facial recognition methods be applied?
What about privacy right questions?
What features to deal with “rowdy” passengers and crime? What about noise levels and such issues?
How will passengers be able to “communicate” with staff while in the cars?
4. In addition to good interior signage, I’d like to see very clear communications inside the cars, both audio and visual, about up-coming stations. Probably the use of pre-taped announcements–in order to control the quality of the articulation, volume, timings, accents, standardization of the messages, etc.. But ENGLISH only in the audio is OK, fine, right, and appropriate, IMO!
5. What about luggage issues, in addition to bike issues?
6. What about “fat” people issues, in relationship to seat sizing and spacing concerns? Large/small body types? Pets?
7. What about good facilitation of the INTERNET while riding? Will there be good continuous connections along the routes? Are there guestions about issues related to the usage of mobile devices? (loud cell phone talkers, etc.)
Just some of the issues that come to mind, that I wonder how deeply BART is considering and integrating into its designs!
Those are all interesting questions PS, and I highly recommend contacting BART Spokesman Linton Johnson if you can get a hold of him (I’ve been very unsuccessful in that endeavor).
For further education on BART seats, check out this article: http://www.baycitizen.org/transportation/story/bart-seats-bacteria-blossom/
Jessica Lipsky
Editor
Who had the idea to put cloth seats on BART? They are disgusting. I don’t care what size or what kind of seat you use, just DON’T use cloth covers. Every time I take BART I get the willies about sitting on those seats…. and….. carpet on the train? Come on!
Are they kidding? With the growing width of the American population, narrower seats??? REALLY? For more aisle space?
This is insane.
NO cloth seaths and No rugs!!!
I am tired of the grossness of the seats. They find all sorts of fecal cloriform bacteria on the cloth. YUCK…
Wider aisles for sure, they are too narrow to get extra people into when the train is SRO. The seats, less two inches are still way way wider than an airplanes.
Doesn’t anyone remember the original BART promises?
o A seat for every passenger
o Bart will pay for itself out of the fare box
These promises were made when they were trying to get approval for the Bay Area Rapid Transit District (BARTD) and the original bond issue to construct it.
Of course, similar promises were made about the tolls on the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges…
Update: Jessica, I entered my above questions into the comment box (email) of BART’s train car info page on their site. I received a canned message to the gist of “we have received your comment message and our planners will take your comments/ideas into consideration in their planning.” So we’ll see if there is any followup response.